UCLA alumnus and founder of Common Space Brewery, Brent Knapp, discusses his career and time at UCLA with Podcasts contributor Aidan Teeger.
Aidan Teeger: Today, we’re sitting down with Brent Knapp, the founder of LA’s very own Common Space Brewing Company. Brent, thanks for being here.
Brent Knapp: Thank you so much, Aidan. Happy to be here.
AT: For those who may not know you, let’s touch on some background. When did you attend UCLA?
BK: I was here from 2001 to 2005. I grew up in the South Bay, so UCLA was a local school. I was just ecstatic to be coming here and was so happy when I got in– and ended up choosing to go here. It was a very weird time because I started in September 2001, just about 10 days after September 11. It was a surreal time to be moving onto a college campus.
AT: So, a bit of a mixed bag there. What was your field of study?
BK: I majored in anthropology.
AT: You and me both.
BK: Yeah, I saw that. What got you into anthropology?
AT: Dude, it’s a pretty broad subject, so I think it alleviated some of the pressure of having to be very precise with what I wanted to do with that degree. But besides that, there wasn’t really much insight. How, if at all, did your degree in anthropology influence your eventual transition to the craft beer industry?
BK: I’m not sure it did directly. I was thinking about this on the way driving up here. I think the biggest thing my anthropology degree helped me with is just trying to see the world through other people’s eyes, through a different framework than my own. I think we all tend to see the world just through our own frame and our own eyes. Trying to put myself in other people’s shoes, I think that’s probably the biggest takeaway I got from my anthropology degree.
AT: And so did you grow up in LA?
BK: I did, in the South Bay and Palos Verdes.
AT: Oh fantastic, that’s a great spot. So you never lived anywhere else up until the point you attended UCLA?
BK: I’ve been here the whole time. I went to UCLA for undergrad and then went to USC for my MBA. I tried to get back into UCLA, but they didn’t let me back in. I think I’d worn out my welcome a bit. But yeah, still a Bruin through and through, not a Trojan in any way.
AT: That’s what they all say. So there was a bit of a grace period between you finishing at UCLA and then eventually getting your MBA from USC. What were you doing during that period?
BK: Sure. So, immediately after school, well, not quite immediately, I went to Europe for some backpacking on a really amazing trip, but went to work with my family for their real estate business. Developing and managing their real estate portfolio. Among my siblings, I was just the one that … I don’t want to say most well-suited but it seemed like a good fit. And all my other siblings were going down their own path. So I went back home to work with my family, I learned a ton about real estate. And yeah, it was just kind of my start to a career and really enjoyed a lot of parts of it. But it’s a mom-and-pop shop. They’re still around and running the business now, but certainly not a big corporate job. And I think at some point, it just felt a little small for me and just kind of what I was looking to do. And so I decided I wanted to get my MBA. I only applied to two schools, UCLA and USC. I wanted to stay local. And yeah, got into USC and really enjoyed that program. I think I was blown away with how well of a job—but no, I recognize I’m on a UCLA podcast, and I’m a huge Bruins fan, but I was very impressed with the way they develop the brand and that program. It’s a great program, and I’m sure Anderson’s program is also awesome. I know a lot of alums from there.
AT: Nice caveat, I’m glad you said that. Don’t want this to turn into an ambassador program for USC.
BK: Yeah, no, no, no, I’m a Bruin through and through.
AT: Got it. And so, the period where you were working with your parents in real estate, how many years was that?
BK: Want to say six or seven? Maybe seven, something in there.
AT: That’s quite a sizable gap.
BK: Yeah, I did real estate for seven years. Towards the end of that, it was when I decided to get my MBA. I did the part-time program. So I continued to work and then during the MBA program, taking finance classes and just learning more about financial markets, I really fell in love with the world of finance. And I made the decision that I wanted to transition into finance. Fortunately, I was able to get an internship at a fixed income asset manager in downtown LA, transitioned into that, started as an intern, just helping with marketing. Eventually, I got a seat on the trading desk, which was really fun. Interesting environment to work in at a small trading desk. Just a very different environment from what I was used to and then not too long after that, I was able to get a promotion, I guess I would call it, and I became a credit analyst, which was definitely the most fun I had in finance. I got to do that for about three years before I eventually left to open the brewery. Basically, for one thing, I loved the hours, I loved market hours, like, you know, I could get into the office at 6 o’clock or so and usually walk out at 3 or 3:30. Part of that is also that you’re constantly reading and performing research, which is just fun. I love to read. So, night work for me, you know, reading, it’s just, it’s kind of a joy, reading about the economy or what’s happening in different industries. And one thing that I think maybe was helpful as I got into the brewing world was I covered the industries I was responsible for researching and knowing about and then providing investment recommendations was retail and restaurants, consumer products, and food beverage tobacco. So beverage included alcohol, and there were a lot of deals happening around that time. So I got to learn a lot about what was going on in finance, which was masteries. Nothing we were considering doing.
AT: ‘Big Beer’ is the colloquial term for these big companies, huh?
BK: Yep, big beer. And I think the biggest deal that happened towards the end of my finance career, and I knew I was doing the brewery on the side, but SAB Miller and Anheuser Busch merged. Basically, that company formed an entity where one out of every three beers sold on the planet was going to be from that company, just a massive concentration in beer and… yeah, hence term big beer.
AT: Okay, so do you think that would explain how you began to comprehend the industry not so much microbrewing and craft brewing, but by reading these reports of these large companies, you were able to gain a sense of what was involved in the broader space?
BK: I think so. I think more of that just gave me a little bit of comfort with looking at financials. Because when we started working on the brewery, the first thing I did was kind of my due diligence, just like making an investment recommendation. I just needed to look at this and like, ‘does this make sense for me and my family for me to quit my job and open a brewery?’, like does the risk or the reward outweigh the risk? Honestly, it was looking at the financials, looking at the aspects of the industry that I think was most helpful. The passion for beer came from just my love of craft beer over the last … I guess I should say even beyond that, I think I really fell in love with good beer the first time I went to Munich in 2005, on a backpacking trip with my now-wife.
AT: Was that for Oktoberfest?
BK: No, it wasn’t, it was just the middle of the summer right after I graduated. We went on this backpacking trip and we went counterclockwise. So we started in England, then France, Spain and more or less ended the trip in Germany. And I remember getting to Munich and sitting in the beer gardens there, and to me it’s the most magical place in the world. Beautiful beer gardens– leaders of beer, you can tell I’m a big beer fan obviously. Just a fantastic experience, very communal, very inclusive– kids, dogs, just a fun environment.
AT: Oh yeah, that’s the best. It’s the element that you really find in breweries that you don’t find anywhere else. You won’t find it in bars; people won’t be bringing their kids and dogs the whole family; breweries are just a lot more wholesome. Have you heard of this guy called Steve Hindy by any chance?
BK: No.
AT: So he founded the Brooklyn Brewing Company. I can’t remember exactly what year. And he was a journalist for a while. And he ended up writing this book called “The Craft Beer Revolution.” He sort of describes the story of the pioneers of the American craft beer scene, and how it was initially inspired by a lot of these European, quote-unquote, “brewing nations” such as England, France, Germany, and how there’s almost been a bit of a reversal, where a lot of these nations are now taking hints from American craft beer. Just super interesting, because craft beer in the United States is comparatively young. So it’s had this huge parabolic growth. So a super interesting story if anyone wants to buy that book–It’s not a sponsorship. So the genesis of the idea of Common Space came partially as a result of your friendship with the guy you met during your frat years at UCLA. I think his name was Ryan Filippini?
BK: Right, that is right. We were in the same fraternity and yeah, we enjoyed a lot of beers together. Well, here they weren’t craft beers. I can tell you that much. They were whatever we could afford.
AT: Yeah, we’re not spoiled for choice for craft beer in Westwood. We do have Broxton, which is like a brew pub, but it’s probably the closest thing. And how exactly did he influence the foundation of the company?
BK: We were at dinner with our wives—I was going to say ‘now wives,’ but they were our wives at the time. He lived in Sacramento, so we didn’t get to hang out as much as we used to. Over the course of dinner, we just started talking about our lives. He was interested in what I was doing in finance. I don’t know if he just figured this out from how I was talking, or maybe I mentioned it, but I had always wanted to start my own company. This goes back to my family being entrepreneurial; it’s just something I’ve always wanted to do. A big part of that came from never having worked at a company that focused on company culture and really tried to build a great team. Nothing against any company I ever worked at, but it was never a priority. That was a big impetus—I’ve always wanted to start a company that was very employee-focused, putting the culture first. Then, he pitched the concept of opening a brewery to me, and that night, he literally convinced me of it. After dinner, we went to several bars and told everyone who would listen, ‘Hey, we’re going to open a brewery.’ I’m sure lots of people say things like that. But then I called him Monday morning just to make sure we were on the same page. If we were going to start this venture, I really wanted it to be about building a great culture and having a very strong philanthropic aspect to it. He was totally on board with that. So, I said, ‘Alright, let’s do it. Let’s get to work.
AT: Good on you for telling people about it and then actually doing it. A lot of people love to, you know, they have the idea of a light bulb moment and then they actually don’t go through. Um, so I want to talk about the initial steps involved in setting this up. You came up with the idea, you could say that’s the easy part done. How did you then find the courage to dive headfirst into this industry that you had no practical experience with? And I ask because it seems like a lot of students are burdened with a malaise of anxiety that stems from inaction on decisions like these. So could you just run me through the texture of your mind and like I said how you ended up having the courage to just really go for it?
BK: I think a big part of it was that I was very fortunate at that point in my life, as it wasn’t an enormous risk. I had a wife who was, and still is, an attorney and could support us. We didn’t have kids at the time, so there wasn’t a massive risk. I knew we weren’t going to be homeless if it didn’t work out. That helped a lot. My background in finance really allowed me to do a lot of due diligence. I didn’t make a commitment to quit my job for at least a year. It took a while for me to really wrap my head around the idea while I was running the brewery on the side, determining whether it was worth quitting my job. So, it wasn’t, I would say, nearly as courageous as it seems. We also knew one of the big reasons Ryan was such a great partner was because he worked in the industry, and I was coming from outside the industry. One of the big things he brought to us was his network of contacts, and the most important thing he needed to bring was a brewmaster. I had homebrewed a few times but didn’t really enjoy it. It involves a lot of cleaning and a lot of patience since it takes at least three to four weeks to brew a beer. It just wasn’t my thing. So we knew we needed to hire a professional brewmaster and didn’t want to be an amateur brewery where he and I were just messing around making subpar beers. Anyway, he succeeded in that in a big way. He introduced me to a guy named Kushel Hall, who was the director of operations at a big brewery in San Francisco called Speakeasy. Kush, as he is called for short, flew down to LA. This was kind of like our interview date. It was an all-day thing. I picked him up at the airport, took him to my house, had a beer with him and my wife, and then we basically went bar hopping and brewery hopping all day to get to know each other and see if we were a good fit. Pretty quickly, we hit it off personally, but I think we had some really good conversations about what we wanted to build. He really hit the nail on the head when he asked, ‘What are you looking forward to? What do we want to build here?’ He just said, ‘I want to build a company where the employees feel fulfilled at the end of each day.’ And I think that was just it. I wasn’t super sure what I meant by saying I wanted a good culture, that I wanted a company that puts our people first, but he nailed it with that statement. That’s what we’ve been trying to build since then. It was pretty fun that night. We definitely had a few beers, and before the end of the night, I had called my wife and told her to come meet up with us, and Kush called his brother who lived in LA. We ended up having a party by the end of the night after realizing this was a good fit and we were ready to proceed..
AT: Well, that seems like the proper way to conceive a brewery!
BK: Yeah– you’ll see in this industry, and it can be problematic at times, but pretty much everything happens over a beer.
AT: Yeah, you’re not lying. I worked in a brewery in London for a little bit, and pretty much every business meeting was done over a pint, so I attest. Moving on– you ended up buying a property in Hawthorne?
BK: We didn’t buy, I wish, but we did not have that kind of money. We found a beautiful building in Hawthorne. We were mainly looking in Hawthorne and Inglewood because those are independent cities, a little smaller, a little easier to work with than L.A. City because it’s just so big. We knew we wanted to be in that part of L.A. Yeah, we found this beautiful brick building. It was 24,000 square feet, which was way more than we were looking for, but we walked in and fell in love with this building. We had to make it work. It just happened to be a block away from SpaceX, which has been very helpful for our business and a huge part of building our core base, especially at the beginning.
AT: And is that just because you end up getting a lot of foot traffic from people who are working there?
BK: Yep, absolutely. They work very hard. They have like 5,000 employees there. They tend to blow off some steam at Common Space, which is really nice. They’re fantastic patrons.
AT: I guess your experience in real estate probably came in handy when you were looking for a space to build the brewery.
BK: Sure. It helped. I think we were able to save a lot in construction costs because of my background. My dad was super helpful. We basically acted as the general contractor ourselves and hired all the subcontractors. We were able to save a lot of money. We did some of the work ourselves with our own hands, which was obviously challenging too. But yeah, we saved quite a bit of money being able to do that.
AT: Fantastic.
BK: There was a significant buildout, building a beer garden, installing all the tanks, all the plumbing. It’s a pretty massive job.
AT: I remember when I went there a few weeks ago, it looked like you got pretty good utility out of the place. There wasn’t really much empty space.
BK: Yeah, I almost wish we had more space now. We definitely filled up the space. At times we wish we had more, but I think we’re trying to also get more efficient with the space we use.
AT: And have you considered exporting? Obviously domestically and maybe doing collabs with other breweries.
BK: Sure, we’ve done a little bit of exporting. We’ve done a few pallets of beer to Japan, a little bit to New Zealand and Australia through some of our partners. It’s kind of a one-off thing. I don’t think it’s something we’d do that’s super sustainable or something we’d want to do forever. One of the big challenges with beer is it’s extremely heavy for one thing and it needs to be served fresh and ideally kept cold at all times. So, when you ship beer, especially when there are shipping challenges like during COVID, we had pallets that would just sit on a ship for months, and the beer is not going to taste the same quality as when it’s shipped somewhere else in LA and delivered cold. It’s just dramatically different quality.
AT: That definitely makes sense. I can think of a pretty good example of that. Have you heard of this drink called mead?
BK: Mmhm.
AT: For those who don’t know, it’s like a honey wine, but it’s the best example I’ve experienced of degradation of quality over time. I mean, that stuff really loses its flavor quickly. I remember buying a bottle from this meadery in Bozeman, Montana, and we put it in the fridge for the best part of 12 hours, and it was completely different by the morning. So I can definitely see that being a problem for breweries that are making quality a priority.
BK: Yeah, absolutely. And especially the hoppiest beers are the ones that lose that hop character the most. So those are the ones that degrade the fastest.
AT: Hops are a natural preservative, aren’t they?
BK: Yes.
AT: I think that’s where IPAs came from. They had originally hopped up all these beers for export from England to troops stationed in India. For the sake of preservation, because it was a long journey, and the flavor profile just became synonymous with being very hoppy. It’s an interesting story.
BK: Yeah, no, absolutely. The origin of IPA. That’s it. As far as I know, that is not a wives’ tale. That’s the honest-to-God truth.
AT: You mentioned earlier that when Common Space was first conceived, the idea was to create something for people. So, how has the philosophy and culture of Common Space evolved from that point?
BK: That’s a great question. I think more and more, we’ve realized that the best thing to do is to build a thriving business for our employees and for our guests. And we do charitable partnerships with lots of different philanthropies. We have a program called Great Beer Gives Back that we do several times a year where we partner with a charity to produce a beer and donate some proceeds. What we found is, unfortunately, the margins in beer are not great. And so, us being able to donate some money to a charity isn’t going to change the trajectory of that charity. For sure. The biggest thing we can do is really just bring awareness and publicity to different entities. I think that’s what we can help with the most and just kind of help with the messaging. But yeah, I think one of the biggest ways our culture has evolved is that maybe five or six years ago, we weren’t sure what our culture was or what exactly Common Space was. We went through a big process last year where we wanted to start with our purpose. ‘What is our purpose as Common Space?’ If you had asked me a year ago or any of our employees, we all would have given a different answer. It was all around the same thing and felt like it was all in the same bubble. But anyway, we created a committee called the PMV committee – purpose, mission, values – to really codify what our purpose was. After a lot of work, we crafted a culture where people thrive, and we are really happy with where we landed on that. To elaborate a bit, it starts with our company and our employees. We want to build a business environment, a culture where they thrive. If our employees are thriving, they’re going to provide the best service, make the best beer, and be efficient with labor. Having them thrive and our employees be happy and feeling fulfilled, we believe, benefits the business in huge ways. It starts there and then creating that same environment for guests in our taproom by being a highly inclusive, very welcoming space for all, as you mentioned, dogs, kids. It’s a very family-friendly environment, especially during the day and on weekends and such. So, to craft a culture where people thrive is finally where we landed with our purpose.
AT: Super cool. Yeah, it sounds a lot like what Trader Joe’s seems to have going on. Everyone working there seems to be in good spirits and it’s just a good energy to be around.
BK: And the service is incredible because of that.
AT: That too, right. On the horizon for Common Space, are there any big projects, collaborations, expansions coming up that we can expect that you could tell me about?
BK: Sure, there’s no big mission or projects we’re working on. We are looking at opening additional taprooms. We have a large enough production facility where we don’t need to add any major equipment. We do need to add some tanks in the next 12 months, but nothing major. We are absolutely looking for additional taproom locations. That’s the best next step for our business. We’ve been looking for a few years, haven’t found the right space. We’re pretty choosy. And I think more and more, we’ve realized that, especially with everything that’s going on in the beer industry, kind of low and slow is how we want to continue to grow. We don’t want to aim for 30-50% growth at any point, maybe one year or so if we expand into a territory or something, but we definitely want to be more of a tortoise instead of a hare, because, yeah, we think it’s just right for our business. So, looking for additional taprooms but do not want to step on a landmine and open some massive taproom that ends up derailing the whole business. That would just be a tragedy for us. So we’re choosy and risk-averse.
AT: Okay, that could be smart. The industry is still quite niche. So you probably don’t want to do anything too radical.
BK: Sure, and I think there are some serious industry headwinds. Last year was the first year ever on record, other than 2020, which was COVID that changed everything. But last year was the first year that craft beer volumes declined in the United States, which is a scary trend when growth was in the teens for forever, then 5 to 10 percent, then single digits, and now finally negative last year.
AT: Just to clarify, when you say volume, do you mean volume of consumption or volume of number of craft breweries operating?
BK: Volume like consumption.
AT: Gotcha.
BK: Yeah, or sales, I’m not sure exactly, but yeah, total beer produced, craft beer produced in the country was down last year. So, yeah, it’s a shocking shift in the environment.
AT: What do you think might have caused that?
BK: I’m not an expert on it, but the biggest thing is traditionally there were only three categories of alcohol: beer, wine, and spirits. For years, that was it. In the last maybe ten years or so, this fourth category has developed and that includes canned cocktails, which are now very popular, especially ‘high-end’ canned cocktails, wine in a can, non-alcoholic beer and non-alcoholic products. Even seltzers, which are technically a beer, but sometimes they kind of get lumped in with this fourth category and basically, the fourth category is taking market share from everyone. And that’s a big challenge for all beer, wine, and spirits manufacturers. And I think that and also just your cohort seems like you guys don’t drink as much as my cohort did.
AT: Don’t lump me in with them. I’m supporting you guys to the end.
BK: Just, you know, positive health and wellness trends, which I think are great. I used to study a lot about them when I worked in finance because they affected my industry so much. But yeah, there are some very positive health and wellness trends that are not great for beer sales.
AT: Shame, I always tell people, like, beer is good for you.
BK: Yep.
AT: It’s good for the soul.
BK: In moderation and balance, right? It’s great for you.
AT: I guess so. So, besides Ryan, did you make any other connections at UCLA that were influential on your journey?
BK: Sure, a ton of our outside investors to get the project going were my friends from UCLA.
AT: Oh, really?
BK: I would say at least five, seven, something like that. A good number. So that was really fun, especially since they were the easiest ones to sell on the investment. None of my UCLA friends put us through the ringer. They just did what they could afford, and it was really supportive of them, and we’re super appreciative of that.
AT: And did you meet these guys in your frat or?
BK: Either our frat or Sigma Chi. I was in Sigma Nu, most of these other guys were in Sigma Chi. We kind of joined up and became good friends.
AT: So you guys maintained your connections all those years. That’s pretty cool. So here’s one for the aspiring entrepreneurs in the UCLA student cohort. Take into account things like practical skills or mindset. Is there any one thing that stands out to you as being most important?
BK: It’s a great question. I’m probably not going to give a good answer and it’s going to ramble at times. Yeah, I’m not an expert on starting businesses. That’s for sure. I knew we were very team-focused from bringing on the brewmaster and then continuing down the line. I guess here’s my advice, build the absolute best team you can around you. That’s my focus constantly, and it took a few years to get that team around me, but we now have it. We have just this incredible team, and I kind of struggle at times. I don’t know how to coach or train our managers because they’re so good. Like, I literally just stay out of the way and occasionally steer the ship when maybe it’s sailing in the wrong direction. Surround yourself with fantastic people. Something I just heard that I loved on an Adam Grant podcast. I think it’s fantastic. Especially for young people. Cause I know when I was young, I kinda thought I knew everything. You should audit your question to statement ratio and make sure you’re always asking significantly more questions than making statements. I thought that was very good. And then when you do ask questions, actually listen. There are a lot of people out there who are good at asking questions but not at the listening part of that. So, I think those things are really helpful. I would say do it like if in doubt or don’t be in doubt, just do it. Especially when you’re young before you have real responsibilities. Cause like what’s a 10-foot jump when you’re 25 and unmarried without a mortgage and no kids when you’re 35 with two kids becomes a hundred-foot jump when you’re 45, it’s a thousand-foot jump.
AT: Just make the move, don’t ruminate as much.
BK: Yeah, I mean, assess the risks, try to do some risk-reward analysis, but it’s so much fun to build something tangible. That’s great. It’s fun.
AT: Gotcha. You’re back on campus now– how has it changed from when you were here? Do you feel any nostalgia walking around?
BK: Sure. No, it’s incredible. It’s just people look so young. I have to say I’m 41 years old. The amount of construction that’s happened. Every time I come, I come to UCLA at least once a year or so for some event, the amount of construction is just incredible. Huge energy. I’m also blown away with how sophisticated and successful new college grads are, just doing things light years ahead of what I was doing when I was 22. Just blown away. We hired someone right out of college. They didn’t go to UCLA. They went to LMU. They’re going to figure out who I’m talking about. And, yeah, I was just like, this person doesn’t have any experience. This is not an easy job and they absolutely crushed it. They could not have handled the job like they did at that age for sure. I’m just very impressed with what young people are doing these days. If that answers your question. Oh, the other really cool thing about UCLA is, you guys now serve Common Space beer at the Luskin Center. That didn’t exist when I was here.
AT: This is news to me. You can just go in and have a pint? Is it that sort of thing?
BK: Yep. We had a few before we came to the gymnastics meet on Monday and had a few beers.
AT: Super cool. Okay, I’m going to have to scope that out.
BK: Next, we’re working on getting into Pauley Pavilion. That’s the next goal.
AT: There’s a basketball game against Utah tonight, so if you could speedrun that. Get it in before 6:30 p.m.
BK: Just go to the bar and request it, please. Put in a good word for us.
AT: Will do. Brent, it’s been a pleasure. I found this incredibly interesting and I hope you guys continue to smash it.
BK: Awesome. Thank you so much, Aidan.
AT: Thank you.
If you enjoyed that conversation with Brent, then you may want to consider heading over to Daily Bruin Podcasts on Spotify for a selection of interviews and conversations with some of the most amazing and inspiring Bruins out there.
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